Cardinal Perspectives with The Catholic University of America-Tucson

In this Cardinal Perspectives episode, we are honored to feature four unique perspectives.

Ellen Fisher, assistant director at Catholic University-Tucson, started her education career on a tiny island in Chuuk, Federated States of Micronesia as a Jesuit volunteer. Her B.A. in theology from Loyola University Chicago afforded her opportunities to share the Catholic faith in the classroom and through campus ministry work. After earning an M.A. in educational leadership from the University of Notre Dame, she served as a Catholic school elementary principal and a high school educational technology coach. Ellen has a dynamic leadership style that focuses on students following their passions and striving for a more just world.

Barry McInerney is a retired CEO and global investment leader with more than 35 years of experience in the U.S. and Canada. He is the founder of McInerney Consulting Group and a dedicated Catholic educator who inspires students to lead with purpose and integrity through teaching “The Human Advantage” and “Business Ethics” courses at Catholic University-Tucson. Barry is joined today by his wife, Rose McInerney—an accomplished CEO, writer, and storyteller with a passion for using media to spark change. In addition, Rose will join the Catholic University-Tucson faculty this fall, continuing her family’s shared commitment to forming the next generation of ethical leaders.

Zachary Lopez, Class of 2025, is a proud graduate of Catholic University-Tucson who participated in three internships with Paul Ash Management, the Tucson Metro Chamber, and the YMCA of Southern Arizona. Known for his adaptability, curiosity, and commitment to excellence, Zach consistently impressed mentors and peers alike. He graduated cum laude and as a member of the Alpha Sigma Lambda Honor Society and is poised for success in the next chapter in his life.

Ellen Fisher

Thanks. Graduate class of 2025, Zach Lopez, for being here, and the McInerney family, who have so many connections to the Tucson program. You are generous supporters and donors of the program overall, and also happened to be an instructor for several classes Barry. And Rose is an incoming instructor, she didn't quite know that this was an onboarding opportunity when she agreed to come to D.C., but she is ready and willing here. 

So Zach's been with the program for three years, came in as a transfer student, and has taken nearly all of his classes with Catholic University-Tucson. And again, the Barrys have just been instrumental in many of those classes. And so we have a conversation here today about what that time has meant as a student, as a supporter, as an instructor. And thanks for being here in this beautiful building. 

Zach, pretend we didn't just have that other conversation and tell us about your experience overall at CatholicU-Tucson.

Zachary Lopez 

CatholicU-Tucson has been a really good opportunity to meet a diverse group of people who are all bound by the same morals and beliefs. It's just nice when you're trying to figure out who you want to be in life to meet a variety of people who ultimately believe what you believe and help shape what you want to become.

Ellen Fisher
Awesome. So, we just came from the meet and greet with course authors. The course authors are the individuals who create the classes on staff here in Washington, D.C., and we have Tucson local instructors who teach it. So you met some of these course authors today for the first time. How was that?

Zachary Lopez 
It was just, it was a really big eye-opener, just because it was full circle about everything that CatholicU is all about. Just being able to see what the community of CatholicU is from the East Coast all the way to the West Coast. So it's just a huge eye-opener.

Ellen Fisher
It was cool for them to meet you as well.

Zachary Lopez
One class that particularly engaged me was my strategy class. It was a business strategy class. We did a simulation where we had to sell bikes, and just being able to apply everything that I've learned—from marketing to finances to brand development—being able to apply it was just full circle and just fun, ultimately.

Ellen Fisher
And how did your group do?

Zachary Lopez
We did extremely well—better than what people would have expected us to do. So I think that's a win in my book.

Ellen Fisher
And has your group decided to open up a bike company?

Zachary Lopez
It'll be coming very shortly.

Ellen Fisher
Alright. Let's look back at staff or instructors over your last few years. Are there any that made an impact or you could tell a story about?

Zachary Lopez
Looking back at my class time, I always enjoyed being in Barry's class, just because he really motivated us to think differently. And whenever we thought differently or presented a different idea, he liked to encourage that and see how it can correlate or challenge us to think and develop what those thoughts are.

Ellen Fisher
How did this education prepare you for what's next?

Zachary Lopez
Just by giving me the opportunity and being able to meet new people. Of course, having the degree helps when looking for jobs, but ultimately just helping me find out who I want to be in life. Yeah, it's really setting that foundation.

Ellen Fisher
So, a couple of weeks ago, Zach had his final internship presentations, and he did three internships over the last few years. And I commented on your growth from the first one to the last one. So, in retrospect, tell us a little bit about those three internships and experiences.

Zachary Lopez
Definitely. So, the first one was with one of the first instructors that I had for accounting. It was property management, although it wasn't the most exciting, I was still able to learn different things, like programming softwares that they use or just ultimately how things are run in a business on that scale.

After that, I went to the Tucson YMCA, which was just really fun because I was able to network with a couple of different people. And through networking with different local communities as well, I was able to see just how advocating for oneself and others can really make an impact in the community. And just being able to have free breakfast was a plus as well.

Ellen Fisher
That was with the Tucson Metro Chamber?

Zachary Lopez
Yeah, with the Tucson Metro Chamber. And then, for the very last one, it was with the YMCA of Southern Arizona. That one was just probably the most—I guess the one that I appreciated the most—just because I was able to apply everything I learned and still have that element of fun. Just sports have always been a big part of my life, so to apply the values that I've learned from that in a fun way was just eye-opening.

Ellen Fisher
I'm gonna humble brag as the assistant director here, I think one of the most rewarding things is seeing the growth of students. And you can know that as a parent as well, but having Zach on his first day kind of started with the property management company and waited for tasks to be assigned, and you were sitting back and saying, let's just see what they asked me to do. Then hearing what you did in this last semester at the YMCA where you're going to events on weekends and you're looking at systems improvements and you're telling your supervisor how things could be better, in just a few months. That was about 18 months overall, three semesters.

That's just really awesome to see your growth, so I'm proud of you too, Zach. Today was your first time on campus, actually. Zach's sister graduated a year ago and was here on campus with your family, and now Zach is here. Didn't make the trip last year, but you're here now. You got a brief tour. What impressed you?

Zachary Lopez
Just the combination of modern architecture and classic architecture. I think it's very beautiful. Particularly in DC, I like how there's a lot of greenery around—a lot of nature. It's just a combination of all of the elements.

Ellen Fisher
Earlier today you talked about paving the way for new students or other students who would take this opportunity. So what advice would you give to students considering this program in Tucson?

Zachary Lopez
Look at every opportunity that you can and are given, and just try to take it with a grain of salt and see what you can learn from it, just so that you can really see what that impact can have on you.

Ellen Fisher
You're graduating tomorrow. You finished your final presentation last week. So what's next, Zach?

Zachary Lopez
I guess just keeping my eyes forward and looking straight ahead. Just trying to see what opportunities do come. I don't want to limit myself to anything because I do want to see where I can go, and I think that's the joy and fun about life—not knowing where exactly you're headed.

Ellen Fisher
Zach, what do you remember about the business ethics course that Barry taught?

Zachary Lopez
From the business ethics class, it was a while ago, but figuring out what's the right thing to do in business. I guess because it's so easy to do things wrong and create strife in so many people's lives from mistakes or from your own ego. But when you really remember what's important and you focus on helping others, I think you can really make business moves that help everybody grow together.

Ellen Fisher
Barry, what did you think about teaching the business ethics course?

Barry McInerney
The Business Ethics course by Michael Pakaluk was exceptional, and I was asked to teach it as the first course I taught. I was very glad to see that within a business school, ethics was being taught. Obviously, being a 35-year veteran of the investment industry, which at times as an industry has had its ethical breaches and we all are aware of those, to teach this course and to try, in my experience, to bring to life how important it is to make decisions from an ethical, moral compass lens, incorporating Catholic doctrine into the course—which again, first time I've had to do that—was a beautiful thing, and I really enjoyed it. 

I learned a lot from it; I hope the students did as well. And just that combination of Professor Pakaluk's academic rigor and world-renowned books on this topic, and my experience of bringing it to life in the business world for 35 years, I thought it was a good combination. And the students were amazing. They were very engaging and they liked being challenged a little bit. And the younger generation—it's encouraging to hear their views on the fact that, yes, they want to do the right thing and make decisions based on a sound ethical lens in this topsy-turvy world that we live in.

Ellen Fisher
I'm gonna back up a little bit, Barry, and ask you the question of how did you find CatholicU-Tucson, or how did we find you?

Barry McInerney
You found me. Catholic University found me. They had me at "hello." I had just retired and was looking to do a combination of writing, which I'm doing—I'm writing some books—and do some board work and teaching. I do teaching, and my wife Rose has a much stronger teaching background than I have, but I taught a little bit at the University of Toronto in the 1990s, and I really enjoyed it. And then life got busy and I was unable to continue that. 

So I guess through the bishop, who was looking for a senior, retired executive with an MBA who had a little bit of knowledge of Catholic doctrine—could that individual come in and speak and teach this course? They found me. I had spoken to the other universities in Arizona—the prominent ones—having discussions with them on investments and finance. But goodness, what an opportunity this was. I just jumped at it. I thought this was gonna be really cool. I'm enjoying it a lot.

Ellen Fisher
I remember that first phone call because I reached out to the bishop to ask, “do you know anybody who has a business degree and history, but also has experience with Catholic ethics?,” thinking I was looking for a unicorn. And then Barry called 24 hours later, so unicorns exist. And Barry has been a huge asset not only to just our program overall, but also impacting the students directly. 
What's a memory, Barry, that sticks out to you with this program, with teaching, or with an individual student? Can you tell us a story?

Barry McInerney
My memory—two memories right now. One, and you mentioned this to me—the fact that now I have an opportunity to teach a first-year course and a fourth-year course. So I can bookend the students. And I'm only a year and a half into it, so obviously I'll see the students come through those four years and see their growth. 

But the memory right now is today, because all the students that are graduating, I've taught, and that really brings it to life for me. It's an emotional thing for me because I only taught one or two courses for them, and they got great instructors throughout the Catholic University program at Tucson. But that really, I guess it creates a capstone when you come out here on this beautiful campus and Rose and I will be able to see these students graduate tomorrow, and I had some small way, I had part of their education at Catholic University. So that's pretty amazing.

Ellen Fisher

Rose, how did you first feel like you were in the fold here?

Rose McInerney
I can't help but get over the thought that amazing things happen when you break bread. As Catholics, we know this. And it was our parish priest who had come for dinner at our house, so we were breaking bread together, and literally the next day he pulled Barry aside and said, "Hey, I just had a request from the bishop." 

So there's something really beautiful, I think, about that. It's something just so providential that God works in these amazing ways where Barry and I have been longtime supporters of education for youth, particularly those kids that don't have the same opportunities and advantages. And education is something that just is a great equalizer. When you have an education, you feel armed with the future. So when Barry had this opportunity, just immediately outside the door of our church, when he walked out, we looked at each other and Barry of course said "yes" right away. And then he turned to me and said, "What have you got me into?" 

I just think it's a very providential thing and I'm so happy. I was so glad to see Barry go off and just begin that second sort of career of exploring how he could give back. So it was so easy to support, of course.

Barry McInerney
No, I thought I'd blown it over dinner with our parish priest. He's very smart, and being an investment executive, he asked me a lot of questions. And so, the last question was on my views of cryptocurrency and Bitcoin. So I gave my dissertation on that. I don't know if he liked it or agreed with it, so the next day I was surprised he'd asked me to teach, because I thought I'd blown it. But anyway.

Rose McInerney
He grabbed you. He grabbed you.

Ellen Fisher
We don't have a course on that yet. So, you're not a chosen one.

It’s great to hear your stories and your connections. What do you think makes this unique? This is to both of you—what makes Catholic University special?

Barry McInerney
I don't know if this model is entirely unique—but to have the opportunity to have the academic grounding of the courses here in Washington, D.C., and then the instructors on the Tucson campus— all of us are currently in the workforce or practitioners or retired—and so we just try to bring that to life. And that's a great combination, because sometimes the academic professors haven't had a chance to work in the outside world very often. And I'm not an academic, so I haven't had an opportunity to be an academic at a university. So I think the combination is very powerful. Smart—I know that was intentional.

Ellen Fisher
Right.

Barry McInerney
But I think the combination is very powerful.

Rose McInerney
I think from a geographical position too. Again, just thinking about this—we're here in Washington, D.C; this is where policy happens, laws are made. We need really good thinkers, like Barry was alluding to earlier, tackling how we solve problems today—they're so complex. And we have really brilliant young minds. America is known around the world for being innovative and being creative. And then I look to where we are in Tucson, and it is a gateway for immigrants and for people that have crossed borders from all over. So, geographically, there's a beautiful open door. And maybe for this year, even thinking of this Year of Hope, there's a beautiful symmetry, I think, that goes with the Southwest and the Northeast. Just those two things. There's a wonderful marriage in that. And I think to have it based on or circling the Catholic doctrine, the foundations of Christ—we need Him more than ever today. And I feel like this is a good military move—to just flank on both sides like that. Smart, smart, and wonderful.

Barry McInerney
Can I add something? Because again, back to the Catholic doctrine—and again, not all the students are Catholic and not all of them are Christians—but it's okay. Yes, they want to hear and learn because even in looking at some of the very challenging problems that we are faced with now, as Rose said, in this world, you can go back to the teachings of Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica, to look into views on immigration and treating new people in this country as we always have—with dignity and respect and grace. 

And I think the students like to hear that. It's 2,000 years of consistency in teachings, so there must be something in there, some good nuggets in there that we try to weave into the teachings within each course, and they're listening. The students—I think Zach agrees—they're just thirsty for knowledge. And as we know, sometimes when the world speeds up too fast and gets too out of kilter, it's good to step back and look at tradition and what has been taught for hundreds, if not thousands of years, and try to meld those two together.

Zachary Lopez
I think what really helps is that Catholicism is very big on accepting others. That's the core of Catholicism—acceptance. And when you're different and you're learning about that, I think it's more welcoming.

Ellen Fisher
I want to go back to something you said just about teacher, and it makes me think like Christ is teacher, and then all the teachers of the Church, and then the teachers that they have in Tucson, the teachers they have at their internships, and then these course authors who are also teaching just in a different modality. That is not something every higher ed opportunity provides—that you have all those different perspectives and modalities of learning: in person every day at an internship or one day a week, and then you have somebody you meet every Friday to unpack the content and the learnings, and then you have these other people online. So it's all-encompassing there. 

This is your first foray into higher ed as a teacher, but you are also familiar with higher ed as a whole. How do you think a program like this impacts Catholic higher ed? What does it mean for Catholic higher ed as a whole?

Rose McInerney
It's impactful, it's needed. And that combination, I think, of the spirituality—maybe the focus, like we were talking about on human dignity—that the individual has worth. And then extrapolating that and pushing it out through all the various disciplines of curriculum is wonderful. Young people today are so inspiring. Barry and I are inspired by them, not just because we have children that are grown adults having their own children now, but they're smart and they're resourceful. They're looking for meaning. And they want to know that the things that they do have meaning and that they've got value—they're here for a reason. 

Most of us want that kind of affirmation. And I think having this discipline of being able to tap into what it is you say you value, and seeing that you can actually translate that into what Zach's gonna do for a living, what all of these beautiful graduates are gonna do—it's connected, it's real, and it has meaning. And I think there is a push sometimes in our fast-paced world to have young people out there thinking, "Oh, I've gotta go get a degree in this, and then I've gotta take that piece of paper, and then I've gotta go apply here, and I've gotta do this, and I've gotta do that," instead of really stepping back and doing that reflecting all the way through so by the time you graduate, you know who you are, you've got a sense in your core that you've asked a lot of those questions, and then you actually have something even greater to contribute to the world, rather than someone else who feels like they've gone through a little factory process in order to get that piece of paper. Young people are discerning—they don't want that. They're smarter. They're probably smarter than we were when we went through.

What do you think, Barry?

Barry McInerney
I agree. Rose and I always talk about the pendulum of life—the pendulum of life swings sometimes too far one way or the other, right? And we're in a world right now where it has swung too far. But what happens is that the human spirit pushes us back to the middle, although because of our human nature, it's never perfectly in the middle.

But we give examples in our case studies, in our courses, of leaders of companies that are faith-based and how they made decisions. And I think sometimes, unfortunately, our world is such that the young generation doesn't know how to be overt and proud of their faith and infuse it into the business world. There's been this trend for decades now of separating church and state. You can't just separate church and state. The church and state are intertwined. In fact, God created the state, okay? And obviously, He created the Church of Jesus Christ. So that's just the way it is. And so there is this pendulum coming back—Rose and I talk about it a lot. It's getting there on more traditional thinking. 

The world is in disarray, and you can argue what degree we are in disarray—we would argue we're in a bit of a disarray period. Again, as I mentioned before, we tend to come back to tradition, to faith, to guide us through difficult times. And we see this with the youth—across the country, everywhere—and hopefully more with our children too. So yeah, we're getting there.

Rose McInerney
But maybe to the post-COVID world—I'm thinking about how much is done online, and yes, you can say face-to-face, but there's a screen in between for a lot. And so, within the classroom—what I'm seeing from the courses—there's real application, and there's a real, actual person-to-person. There are real connections that are beyond the screen. So that—I think we learn that really it is about from one person to another where things happen and problems get solved. And sometimes I think in this world, we have children, and particularly in the younger grades, who missed periods of school. And even in—as education goes online and we do online learning—there still has to be something there for people to know how to interact with each other where the real meat is.

Ellen Fisher
I'm gonna shift a little bit because I know that there are many opportunities and endeavors that compete for your attention and your generosity. So why did you choose Catholic University-Tucson to support?

Barry McInerney
Oh goodness. It is an easy answer to why we give to the Tucson program. And as Rose mentioned, we've been blessed to be able to give charitably to various organizations, especially ones that focus on education and disadvantaged youth. Rose and I adopted a young man, and he passed away tragically 10 years ago, but it really, galvanized us and our three daughters to further give back to those that just haven't been given the opportunity that everyone deserves to be the best they can be. And it's amazing how just a little bit of help can be so impactful. 

Obviously, focusing our new attention on moving to the Southwest–Arizona—and how we extend and continue our giving and support, not just monetarily, but just our time, which is more important. I'll be honest with you—time is precious. And then here's the Catholic University right in front of us, which we didn't realize had existed in Tucson. It's a great story—oh, it's a great story—that's just growing, still just early days. And it combined the fact that we can obviously support our faith and support education and support youth. As you've said, Ellen, many times, many of—almost the vast majority of these students that'll be graduating are the first college graduates in their families. Isn't that beautiful?

Rose McInerney
I would definitely echo that. I'm thinking of our time when we brought a young man into our home, Marcus. He loved to sit at the kitchen table and be forced to do his homework. And that sounds ridiculous—this was a teenage boy being forced to do this. But it became really personal for us because our children begrudgingly did their homework because they had to do it, whereas here was someone that was really eager and hungry to do it. And I think when we look around the world, your heart breaks a little bit when you see really smart young people that don't have a place to put their energy or to cultivate their minds. 
I was a high school teacher in my former days, so I saw it all the time. They were usually the brightest students, but unless there was some sort of format at home, a lot of them just went through the system. And I loved, in particular, the kids that were challenging—that didn't want to come to class, that weren't inspired. It was always a challenge for me: how, as a teacher, can I tap into something and find that spark somewhere? And then when you did, it was like—wow. And you could see, as you've had the experience, Ellen—and Barry—and any teacher anywhere—parents are teachers, we're all teachers in some way—there's something about feeling—you just feel really good when you know that something you've said, the money that you donate, the time that you give, matters and can change somebody's future.

Ellen Fisher
All those actions—certainly impactful. I love how that connection with Marcus happened in the kitchen, speaking of breaking bread.
This is a question for all three of you, but if people are interested in supporting CatholicU-Tucson, what would you say to them? So future donors—as a graduate, what would you say? If people are interested in supporting CatholicU?

Zachary Lopez
Your support goes a long way. It allows us to have the opportunity to really focus on our work so that we can foster that success as well as still maintain time for ourselves, because at the end of the day, tomorrow isn’t promised. So it’s important to make the most of every single day.

Barry McInerney
If you’re looking for a great way to support financially, a growing story in the desert, please come our way.

We also need more students. Critical mass is important. The students are enjoying themselves. We’ve just been chatting it up at our church and other places, and still, you’ve done a great job of getting the word out there, but Tucson’s a big city. Word of mouth is the best way to spread the word. If you have nieces and nephews and children, bring them. They’ll be in good hands at CatholicU-Tucson.

Rose McInerney
I’m gonna do the broad catch net—catching fish. Everybody has some way they can give. It might be money, it might be time, it might be ideas. And then I’m gonna do this one for Barry: It is the best investment, the best ROI—the best return on your dollar, on your time, on your heart.

And then I’m gonna pull the theology in here and just say, this is a treasure in heaven that you stir up. This is a big one. There are very few things in life that have this kind of return, and when you invest in other people, you are loving another like yourself.

Barry McInerney
You had me in ROI. See, I’m getting emotional over here.

Rose McInerney
Yeah, there you go. It really pulls at your heart. And we need to grow it. We need to grow it. We can see the relevance. We’ve talked about that. We need to grow it.

Ellen Fisher
With your help, we will. What are your well wishes for the class of 2025, Rose or Barry?

Rose McInerney
Joy. Joy for the students, the graduating students. Joy, love, hope, all the good things in life, and just meaning—mission.

Barry McInerney
You’re embarking on your career. We’re not jealous because we put our 40 years in. But go out there and just find what you’re really good at, create your passion. Look for great mentors and make a difference, whatever that may be.

And don’t be afraid—be courageous. Whatever opportunity there is, move around geographically—not just within the United States—whatever comes your way when you’re young. I think the biggest regrets some people have is that they don’t have the opportunity but Ellen, you took this opportunity when you were out of school. The best time to take the opportunity is now.

Be bold and be courageous. Good things happen. Have faith. There’s no linear path. Just go for it! It’s just very exciting.

Ellen Fisher
As I approach my 20-year college reunion, I think about looking back at those milestones, and that’s my well wish for this class of 2025—that in five years, they look back and see how this impacted them or affected their trajectory. In 10 years, they look back, 15, and each time you just see where that happens. It’s hard to get perspective in the last week—what does graduation mean to you, Zach? I haven’t gone across the stage yet. But just that perspective in friendships and meaningful relationships and just what an opportunity that not many people have in the world to get a bachelor’s degree and study and think. 

I get the opportunity to observe classes a lot of times, and I just wanna go in sometimes and shake my hands and be like, college—this is such an awesome time to think critically and be with your peers and not have to think about your job and the impact of what that means if you say the wrong thing. But just the opportunity to explore those ideas. Keep exploring in different ways that you have.

Thank you for this conversation, and congrats to Zach again. And thank you to the McInerney for being here—not only in D.C. but with our Catholic University family. And I think we have the opportunity for that communion—to break bread after this.

Again, thanks for being here.

Rose McInerney

Thank you.

Barry McInerney

Thank you very much.